Crowborough Town Council plans to ignore ban over saying prayers

By Sussex Courier | Friday, February 17, 2012, 08:01

A HIGH Court judge has ruled councils are breaking the law if they insist on having Christian prayers at meetings.

DANGEROUS PRECEDENT: Pastoral leader Captain Graham Bibby thinks that prayers are an important part of our country's heritage
HEADLINES: How we reported on the controversy at Mayfield Parish Council last year

But, in spite of criticism from some atheists, Crowborough Town Council has vowed to continue. It gets around the law – which confirmed there is no place for religious traditions in local government – by having its chaplain recite a prayer once all councillors are stood around the table but moments before the meeting officially begins.

Unrepentant mayor Kay Moss said: "Our prayers are not part of the meeting and therefore we are just carrying on as we were before."

Captain Graham Bibby, pastoral leader at St Richard's Church in Crowborough, said the ruling was setting a dangerous precedent.

"I still firmly believe we have to hold on to our traditions and remember through our heritage we are a Christian nation," he said.

"Saying prayers before a meeting is part of our heritage. We still see ourselves as a Christian country but we seem to be wandering away from it."

The divisive issue hit the headlines last year when Mayfield Parish Council introduced a prayer which was then dropped within weeks.

Then last week Mr Justice Ouseley ruled Bideford Town Council's prayers were unlawful under Section 111 of the Local Government Act 1972.

An atheist councillor in the Devon market town had objected.

The verdict forbids prayers at the start of council meetings across England and Wales, though Crowborough can continue to exploit the loophole.

Andrew Edmondson from the Sussex Humanists said: "Crowborough Town Council may not be breaking any laws but they are breaking the spirit of what the judge said.

"It sends the wrong message. There is quite a bit of hypocrisy with it saying on one hand residents should abide by the law and in our case we have democratically decided we are going to have prayers."

But Mrs Moss said: "We don't have the prayers as part of the agenda. Before the formal meeting starts we just say a prayer.

"The ruling says town councils do not have the power to say a prayer."

Mrs Moss added she hoped town councils might have the power to set their own rules once the coalition's Localism Bill comes into force.

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Comments

I have written to Horsham DC requesting that prayers before the meeting be held in a room other than the Council chamber. The judge in the Bideford court case said that "I do not think that ... the religious views of one group of Councillors, however sincere or large in number, [should] exclude or, even to a modest extent, to impose burdens on or even to mark out those who do not share their [religious] views and do not wish to participate in their expression of them. They are all equally elected Councillors." In the spirit of this judgement, prayers should not be held in the council chamber, as this will be seen to "mark out the non-Christian" councillors. Christians are privileged in England because of the historical role played by the Church of England. Until the inevitable disestablishment of the Church of England, Christians should not seek to take advantage of these ancient privileges. A council holding Christian prayers (or any prayers or other exclusive rituals) is effectively saying that non-Christians are second class citizens. Hardly what one expects from a public service. How can we respect the council if it blatantly disrespects non-Christians? Councils up and down the country are triumphantly declaring that they will ignore the Bideford judgement. They have been encouraged by Communities Secretary Eric Pickles, who has twisted the Localism Bill with frightening speed. He and David Cameron have confidently declared this to be a Christian country, which is code for Christian superiority. It is a shame that anyone has to resort to the law in order to gain equality. Surely secular institutions like councils should embody the spirit of equality?

By acedmondson at 12:21 on 26/02/12
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I have written to Horsham DC requesting that prayers before the meeting be held in a room other than the Council chamber. The judge in the Bideford court case said that "I do not think that ... the religious views of one group of Councillors, however sincere or large in number, [should] exclude or, even to a modest extent, to impose burdens on or even to mark out those who do not share their [religious] views and do not wish to participate in their expression of them. They are all equally elected Councillors." In the spirit of this judgement, prayers should not be held in the council chamber, as this will be seen to "mark out the non-Christian" councillors. Christians are privileged in England because of the historical role played by the Church of England. Until the inevitable disestablishment of the Church of England, Christians should not seek to take advantage of these ancient privileges. A council holding Christian prayers (or any prayers or other exclusive rituals) is effectively saying that non-Christians are second class citizens. Hardly what one expects from a public service. How can we respect the council if it blatantly disrespects non-Christians? Councils up and down the country are triumphantly declaring that they will ignore the Bideford judgement. They have been encouraged by Communities Secretary Eric Pickles, who has twisted the Localism Bill with frightening speed. He and David Cameron have confidently declared this to be a Christian country, which is code for Christian superiority. It is a shame that anyone has to resort to the law in order to gain equality. Surely secular institutions like councils should embody the spirit of equality?

By acedmondson at 12:19 on 26/02/12
Report
I have written to Horsham DC requesting that prayers before the meeting be held in a room other than the Council chamber. The judge in the Bideford court case said that "I do not think that ... the religious views of one group of Councillors, however sincere or large in number, [should] exclude or, even to a modest extent, to impose burdens on or even to mark out those who do not share their [religious] views and do not wish to participate in their expression of them. They are all equally elected Councillors." In the spirit of this judgement, prayers should not be held in the council chamber, as this will be seen to "mark out the non-Christian" councillors. Christians are privileged in England because of the historical role played by the Church of England. Until the inevitable disestablishment of the Church of England, Christians should not seek to take advantage of these ancient privileges. A council holding Christian prayers (or any prayers or other exclusive rituals) is effectively saying that non-Christians are second class citizens. Hardly what one expects from a public service. How can we respect the council if it blatantly disrespects non-Christians? Councils up and down the country are triumphantly declaring that they will ignore the Bideford judgement. They have been encouraged by Communities Secretary Eric Pickles, who has twisted the Localism Bill with frightening speed. He and David Cameron have confidently declared this to be a Christian country, which is code for Christian superiority. It is a shame that anyone has to resort to the law in order to gain equality. Surely secular institutions like councils should embody the spirit of equality?

By acedmondson at 12:18 on 26/02/12
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Surely the time spent on the prayers and other formalities gives them less time to discuss messing up the town and spending taxpayers money like its going out of fashion.

By MrSwing at 17:14 on 21/02/12
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What a waste of time. The councillors should be docked pay for the number of hours this consumes over the course of a year.

By MrSwung at 19:17 on 19/02/12
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